This is an excerpt of an exchange i'm having with a certain elder in our community. i thought i'd share it here with an invite to add to my (and your?) consciousness on this topic. Feel free to take this and post it on other faerie communal sites/boards!
i have to say that while i find myself on the fence on this topic, i am in agreement with you and the other elders whom have been taking the stand your are speaking of. Having said that, i see that the youth that you all have collectivley held on your shoulders (i.e. after, what, more than 20 years of fae community) are now only trying to take fae sensibility into places that their desires are going. New directions like becoming inclusive of women; and that those new directions make sense in today's realities as these youth feel them.
Even tho they are missing the polytricks of a lot of this, i think (i.e. where their approach has become "black and white" or "either/or").
Still, my own seeing is that the way in which this is happening sounds a lot like the political police (i.e. today's version of COINTELPRO) are influencing the nastier parts of how this vision wants to be implemented; i.e. as "each side" seemingly remains incapable of bridging between (and empathizing with) each others' positions. [Note: What the contexts of this seemingly impossible gap are, are perhaps many even tho i think they can all 'boil down to' one prevalent phenomenon, the one doing with "the generation gap"--which in itself is an artificially-promoted gap led by the political police both overtly and covertly]
Where our oft-spoken empathy *should* bring ecstatic room (much room) for dissent and grey area seeing, in actuality we are experiencing the superficiality of those claims and desires that have not been able to be practiced in such a way where they can be pivotal when *it truly counts*.
As far as faggot-centered decision-making on this? Well, a lot of the young generation are in on this; they are the leaders as far as i can tell; sooo, that means, FAGGOTS ARE making these decisions, divisive as they are, apparently.
i know my own experience in the context of faggots wanting women on the land; in the initial phases of women being invited, they become *more equal* than common faggot males like myself. So that's certainly an interesting phenomenon. Our need for sanctuary is being relegated to the sidelines as womenfolk are recruited (right word?) into the creation of something more dynamic (ultimately) than earlier renditions of faggotry and faggot community.
So it's the transition that i think we ought to cast our magick upon, my friend.
But of course, we are dealing with such in the context of more than 30 years of political police/Rollback efforts to divide our generations from each other (and not to mention the ramifications and reflections of oppressed faggot elder sensibilities now judged without empathy and in the most alienating ways; i.e. the prevalence of the phenomenon called "objectification" of each other amongst the elder portion of faggots, and today's safer approaches where "objectification" has to be evolved from in the younger generations' desires).
What do YOU think about all of THIS?
re: My friend said, in part:
but I truly feel they have no interest in understanding the roots of the fae movement and more pointedly the purchase of Wolf Creek. Because I know where those ideals came from and who made some of those decisions I am now the bad guy... Guess what.... I didn't really fit into any group when i was younger and now I find I do not fit in with another group.... another one that is finding no problem in opressing me.
i have to say that while i find myself on the fence on this topic, i am in agreement with you and the other elders whom have been taking the stand your are speaking of. Having said that, i see that the youth that you all have collectivley held on your shoulders (i.e. after, what, more than 20 years of fae community) are now only trying to take fae sensibility into places that their desires are going. New directions like becoming inclusive of women; and that those new directions make sense in today's realities as these youth feel them.
Even tho they are missing the polytricks of a lot of this, i think (i.e. where their approach has become "black and white" or "either/or").
Still, my own seeing is that the way in which this is happening sounds a lot like the political police (i.e. today's version of COINTELPRO) are influencing the nastier parts of how this vision wants to be implemented; i.e. as "each side" seemingly remains incapable of bridging between (and empathizing with) each others' positions. [Note: What the contexts of this seemingly impossible gap are, are perhaps many even tho i think they can all 'boil down to' one prevalent phenomenon, the one doing with "the generation gap"--which in itself is an artificially-promoted gap led by the political police both overtly and covertly]
Where our oft-spoken empathy *should* bring ecstatic room (much room) for dissent and grey area seeing, in actuality we are experiencing the superficiality of those claims and desires that have not been able to be practiced in such a way where they can be pivotal when *it truly counts*.
As far as faggot-centered decision-making on this? Well, a lot of the young generation are in on this; they are the leaders as far as i can tell; sooo, that means, FAGGOTS ARE making these decisions, divisive as they are, apparently.
i know my own experience in the context of faggots wanting women on the land; in the initial phases of women being invited, they become *more equal* than common faggot males like myself. So that's certainly an interesting phenomenon. Our need for sanctuary is being relegated to the sidelines as womenfolk are recruited (right word?) into the creation of something more dynamic (ultimately) than earlier renditions of faggotry and faggot community.
So it's the transition that i think we ought to cast our magick upon, my friend.
But of course, we are dealing with such in the context of more than 30 years of political police/Rollback efforts to divide our generations from each other (and not to mention the ramifications and reflections of oppressed faggot elder sensibilities now judged without empathy and in the most alienating ways; i.e. the prevalence of the phenomenon called "objectification" of each other amongst the elder portion of faggots, and today's safer approaches where "objectification" has to be evolved from in the younger generations' desires).
What do YOU think about all of THIS?
re: My friend said, in part:
but I truly feel they have no interest in understanding the roots of the fae movement and more pointedly the purchase of Wolf Creek. Because I know where those ideals came from and who made some of those decisions I am now the bad guy... Guess what.... I didn't really fit into any group when i was younger and now I find I do not fit in with another group.... another one that is finding no problem in opressing me.
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Re: getting to the crux of fae youth/elder visionary seeing, re: women on our lands
Thu, June 12, 2008 - 1:11 AMThis thread is running on other RF tribes, with the addition of a post from hermeticbear. I have taken the liberty of cutting & pasting it here as I feel it to be relevant & well written.
herm...
hermeticbear
offline 34
Re: getting to the crux of fae youth/elder visionary seeing, re: women on our lands
Yesterday, 9:22 AM
I find the key phrase to your friends answer is this
"another one that is finding no problem in opressing me"
He sees oppression in the world around him constantly. I also see it as being made personal, when in most cases, it probably isn't. However, I do recognize the need and space for male only space. I also recognize that need for inclusiviness, and that it is happening with the currently youthful generation of faes, as they have not experienced the violence that was practiced against the older generation of faes, where many basic human and civil rights were denied to us.
At the same time I question the majority of the youth and thier desire to include women in male designated space. As I have experienced and had confirmed by many friends, the current generation is afflicted by what I recognize and a friends calls the "Will and Grace Syndrome". Because of deeper issues regarding thier sexuality, social role and status, shame, acceptance and self-esteem, many gay youth subsititute meaningful gay relationships with shallow female relationships. They are afraid of connecting with other gay men, and emotional and spiritual intimacy that it takes to really make a relationship successful (while perhaps they maneuver the seas of physical intimacy constantly) and so they make these connections with a female, who acts as a surrogate. I have noticed many people of this type in queer enclaves, and they are often socially awkward and prone to excess in mind altering substances (alcohol being the least of them) so that they may feel more comfortable in dealing with men, while seeking physical intimacy. Some of these people, may be seeking the inclusion of thier female surrogates, because they are afraid and mistrusting of thier male peers and elders because of interior issues, which can only be set aside when they are under the influence of chemical substances.
I recognize that there are exceptions to this trend, and many fae's maintain positive and healthy connections with women of all sorts. I also believe that these people also recognize the space for Males is as important as a mixed space, as important as a female only space, as important as a space for people who share a similar quality to commune and connect with each other, without having to feel bad or be demoralized because of thier desire to connect in a defined space and energy.
I would also like to add that I am coming from a witchcraft tradition that has a 20+ year history of male only space, but has a counterpart that is female only space, and in the past (but not that I know of recently, mostly because of distance and small numbers) that these two counterparts come together to create a shared space, but both recognizes the need for sex identified only space.
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cosm...
cosmic-ly craZy
offline 24
getting to the crux of fae youth/elder visionary seeing, re: women on our lands
Tue, June 10, 2008 - 7:46 PM
This is an excerpt of an exchange i'm having with a certain elder in our community. i thought i'd share it here with an invite to add to my (and your?) consciousness on this topic. Feel free to take this and post it on other faerie communal sites/boards!
i have to say that while i find myself on the fence on this topic, i am in agreement with you and the other elders whom have been taking the stand your are speaking of. Having said that, i see that the youth that you all have collectivley held on your shoulders (i.e. after, what, more than 20 years of fae community) are now only trying to take fae sensibility into places that their desires are going. New directions like becoming inclusive of women; and that those new directions make sense in today's realities as these youth feel them.
Even tho they are missing the polytricks of a lot of this, i think (i.e. where their approach has become "black and white" or "either/or").
Still, my own seeing is that the way in which this is happening sounds a lot like the political police (i.e. today's version of COINTELPRO) are influencing the nastier parts of how this vision wants to be implemented; i.e. as "each side" seemingly remains incapable of bridging between (and empathizing with) each others' positions. [Note: What the contexts of this seemingly impossible gap are, are perhaps many even tho i think they can all 'boil down to' one prevalent phenomenon, the one doing with "the generation gap"--which in itself is an artificially-promoted gap led by the political police both overtly and covertly]
Where our oft-spoken empathy *should* bring ecstatic room (much room) for dissent and grey area seeing, in actuality we are experiencing the superficiality of those claims and desires that have not been able to be practiced in such a way where they can be pivotal when *it truly counts*.
As far as faggot-centered decision-making on this? Well, a lot of the young generation are in on this; they are the leaders as far as i can tell; sooo, that means, FAGGOTS ARE making these decisions, divisive as they are, apparently.
i know my own experience in the context of faggots wanting women on the land; in the initial phases of women being invited, they become *more equal* than common faggot males like myself. So that's certainly an interesting phenomenon. Our need for sanctuary is being relegated to the sidelines as womenfolk are recruited (right word?) into the creation of something more dynamic (ultimately) than earlier renditions of faggotry and faggot community.
So it's the transition that i think we ought to cast our magick upon, my friend.
But of course, we are dealing with such in the context of more than 30 years of political police/Rollback efforts to divide our generations from each other (and not to mention the ramifications and reflections of oppressed faggot elder sensibilities now judged without empathy and in the most alienating ways; i.e. the prevalence of the phenomenon called "objectification" of each other amongst the elder portion of faggots, and today's safer approaches where "objectification" has to be evolved from in the younger generations' desires).
What do YOU think about all of THIS?
re: My friend said, in part:
but I truly feel they have no interest in understanding the roots of the fae movement and more pointedly the purchase of Wolf Creek. Because I know where those ideals came from and who made some of those decisions I am now the bad guy... Guess what.... I didn't really fit into any group when i was younger and now I find I do not fit in with another group.... another one that is finding no problem in oppressing me.
