Membership Discussion

topic posted Mon, August 20, 2007 - 6:26 PM by  Rula
Hi-

I guess I can start the Nomenus Membership discussion myself.

For me, there are a couple of issues.

The first is that Nomenus was formed in an era of Identity Politics. There also was a history of movements started by gay people being co-opted, and this was part of the reasoning that led to the choice of “gay identified man” as the parameter for membership. At that time, in the mid-80's, it was still radical to identify as “gay”. It was even more radical for men (of any stripe) to band together to form a group created to nurture and support one another. There was a feeling among the pioneers that we needed to learn to do everything for ourselves, and that this self-actualization could be manifested only in a group of likes.

To me, one of the most sacred tenets of Nomenus is the way in which we make decisions. We decide on the basis of true consensus, whereby the group can not implement a decision if there is even one person opposed (“blocking”). There are many decisions that would have been made long ago if we were to use “majority rule” as our decision process. As far as I can tell, one of these would have been a change in the membership policy.

It is true that there has been incredible change in the time since Nomenus was formed. Identifying as a particular “sexuality” has been supplanted by a system of affinity and acceptance that blurs a line once distinct. As a social construct, I identify as a “gay man”, in such places as my job, an outdoor group to which I belong, and Nomenus. It is still radical to do so in my job, where that alone is more than most can handle, much less all of the incredible variety of “sexualities” that my friends and acquaintances exhibit. It is markedly less so in Nomenus, where really I am known solely as Rula.

Even more distressing to some members of Nomenus is the fluidity of gender. What does being a “man” mean? At the last Great Circle, one member stated that he could not view another member as a “man”. How tightly should Nomenus parse the meaning of this one word? How can it be defined, as it is unlikely to pass consensus to change it, so as to not exclude. Is that even possible? Do we end up with some unreadable statement in excruciating detail that says effectively nothing? (Like some people view my sentences)

I have witnessed what I consider unmistakable displays of sexism on the part of Nomenus members, especially when they are telling us “how it is” in other communities of which they would have only superficial knowledge (e.g. In the “lesbian” community). “Why should Nomenus have to change?”, they posit, “when other communities still exclude on the basis of gender.” I have seen the taint of exclusivity and entitlement demonstrated by some members – at least partially for which I blame the Reagan administration when it became socially acceptable to be selfish – with a sort of smugness about the continued denial of membership to others in our community. They are correct, and I guess they can be smug about it, “membership” will not yet (ever?) be consensed to change.

On a practical front, what does “membership” mean? Lots of people use its limits as an excuse not to be involved. We get many comments from other communities, such as in Tennessee where Nomenus is referred to as “No women us”. Would a change in membership mean that there would be more people actually doing work for Nomenus and the Sanctuary? (I fear not) What do people in the Wolf Creek Sanctuary community want to do that not being a member of Nomenus precludes them from doing?

As with the last time that Great Circle met in Portland, I am proposing that at least half a day of the Circle be open to the larger community for a discussion of “membership”, and more importantly, how Nomenus can welcome and encourage the contributions of non-members.

Membership has been discussed in other posts with considerable rancor. I hope that the discussion in this can be inclusive without attack, and passionate without oppression.

Rula
posted by:
Rula
Albuquerque
  • Re: Membership Discussion

    Thu, August 23, 2007 - 9:52 PM
    It always concerns me when a people whom are discriminated against, discriminate. This is referred to as a need for power over - in psych and sociology terms.

    As for the fluidity of gender... I have worked closely with the transgender community, in particular the trans male community. Who are we to tell anyone what their gender is. What does it matter to me if someone tells me they are male and I am seeing "female" body shapes??? This comes from of fear and need to put people in a box so we know how to deal and relate with them for our own safety. It would be now different for a person to deny someone their "gay" identity, or as them to "prove" it.

    This is 2007, and the younger generation of queers are having far less of an attachment to the 2 gendered fictitious construct that originated from the heterosexual community. It has been noted in the last few years that there are more than just 2 genders - by psych and human services professionals. We need to get with the times.

    I often hear faeries refer to themselves as the 3rd gender. I myself am born with a penis, yet as I become increasingly more in touch with my true self, I am identifying more and more as a transmale. I had a leather Daddy who was a transmale (he has since passed from us). In my time with him and other trans males, for over 8 years, I am realizing that I relate more with the trans male journey than I do the gay male journey that is so prevalent within the overall GLBTQ community. Will I be denied membership because I identify as trans male, or will I be an exception because I was born with a cock?

    The faeries are better than this! Men practicing a goddess (earth based spirituality) denying women, is denying the goddess. Nomenus is a group of men practicing only male deity spirituality denying women, might make some since, but we still run into the fluidity of gender...

    The gods don't care. This is all our construct not theirs. The question is: "Does it serve us?" If it makes no difference to be a member on Nomenus to do for Wolf Creek, then why have members at all. If Nomenus is going to accept the contributions from women for Wolf Creek and disallow their membership, this is no better than the straight community disallowing gay men their rights but greedily accepting our contributions. It is hypocritical.

    We all came from the sacred vagina, and it is to this great caldron that we will return for rebirth.

    StarChild
    • Re: Membership Discussion

      Thu, August 30, 2007 - 7:17 PM
      There were already established pan-gender land and circles back when Nomenus was called as a social/spiritual support circle from and for Gay Men.
      We also have many ex-Gay ministies today from which you may choose from.
      • Re: Membership Discussion

        Fri, August 31, 2007 - 8:13 AM
        <as posted in Sisters of Nomenus Tribe>

        Spiritual experiences. Historical precedents.
        Emotions that authenticate "truth" claims.

        I am someone who understands, learns from and grows because of this stuff.
        Its good for me to observe, note and contribute when I feel called to the myriad of vantage points.
        Ironically without having any One truth claim or agenda to push, defend or promote.

        Some ask - is that possible?
        he ones who foster a greater harmony.

        But I also see how the "ground of our being" can become shaken when what we value is negated or invalidated by other people's "needs". Sometimes the Sacred is only made known when it runs the risk of being sacrilegious. Seems like when there is "consensus" about the holy then there is and accord of intention and magik and healing can happen. But when one persun's spirit process runs in opposition with that of another ... sometimes sitting back to watch is the best quantum approach with at least one less ego to muddle matter.

        This topic of "church membership" especially as its been brewing on the Left Coast is of particular interest for me
        which should come as no surprise to those who know me and my "spirit" disposition, worldview and endeavors I do in realtime.

        Im so curious about what other people are thinking about "membership" - more than just lip-service definitions of legalistic precedents valourizing identity models - but to get a greater indication of what "spiritual" means for others. It is so very different for each.

        My two cents - as a member of a spiritual organization I would want my role to be one of expansion and connection, rather than a role of limitations, labels or separation. A system of belief that is essential for me allows me to feel connected to Self, Life and Purpose for being in the world. I would want to be a member of such an organization because it feeds my need for inclusion, autonomy, ecstatic impulse, and allows me rational means of extending compassion and fostering understanding.
  • My imperfect take

    Wed, April 9, 2008 - 12:28 AM
    i see that this is an "old" invitation to dialogue...but i saw it as a "new" post today...so perhaps there is some nutritional "food for thought" in here, anyway?

    Hey, just to say up front, i ain't yet a member of Nomenus, tho i have been coming to Wolf Creek since about 1997! And thus i feel a connection enough to respond in a serious, thoughtful way to this lovely attempt of yours (as it seems to me) to promote dialogue. (Let me also say that i have no interest to become one of the formal official-types/stewards at Wolf Creek; thus i have no reason to be less than as fully honest as i know how to be...okay?) (perfectly imperfect, as some have said!)

    As for those who may've gotten hung up somewhere along the way and have felt you were out of hand in various ways in your position, i can only think of this right now: We are all so *often* unpracticed in how we relate or don't relate to each other.

    Anyway, Rula, you said:
    Even more distressing to some members of Nomenus is the fluidity of gender. What does being a “man” mean? At the last Great Circle, one member stated that he could not view another member as a “man”. How tightly should Nomenus parse the meaning of this one word? How can it be defined, as it is unlikely to pass consensus to change it, so as to not exclude. Is that even possible? Do we end up with some unreadable statement in excruciating detail that says effectively nothing? (Like some people view my sentences)
    --
    My feeling is that truths like this are par for the course as younger (and older) folks rise from the crucial foundations that have been laid by those whom have put so many long years into creating and maintaining Wolf Creek.. And thinking through this, we whom are concerned with faerie excellence continuing to develop (and *not* being divided "too much" more) ought to think about how we can create lee-way for those whom want to bloom in ways that were originally not intended.

    These are the voices, after all, of our "offspring" in some ways! (We don't conceive biologically, but instead psychicly!)

    Good for them in being able to empathize with wymyn and so on and so forth! How can we aide them in going towards thier ideals?

    And when they respond with *habitual* pain and knee-jerk distrust (cussing all the way, as i sometimes have done too!), we need to i think step back and look the system that's happening from a bigger picture position.

    Such as, that pain is also par for the course in the context of the war-stuck society in which we are surrounded by. And the fact that we are NOT VERY PRACTICED in radical dialogue-ing with each other!

    So i'm thinking, in what ways might the elder-types of WC assist the relatively "younger" generations whom have come into fae communities and come up with these seemingly "crazy" (to us, whom have so long barely sustained the ramparts). It really is like those with new ideas are you elders' kids, you know! (i'm a kind of a kid of sorts as well, having *only* about 10 years of *off an on* connection!)

    This needn't be a patronizing, ageist interaction, but a radically nurturing and mutually INSPIRING way!

    You all have been thinking about this for many years now, so i figure maybe i'm reiterating some of the sentiment; and that's a goOd thing, you know--repitition-wise!!

    That such is such a hot-button with so many worrying about some using power *over* others only tells me that their concern is coming from a society in which --beyond faedom-- is VERY MUCH a CONSTANTLY FRUSTRATING experience! So i asque, in what ways may *we* poetry/art these challenges so that we see each other as folks like Teddy have been counseling for so many years?!
    • One more thing

      Wed, April 9, 2008 - 12:32 AM
      The rigidity in which today's "younger generation" respond to the "others" will one day be a rigidity that they will be called out on! Because, to practice and perfect such rigidity at all is to bank on perpetuating that position!

      The "bad" elders of today were once the "crazy" youth of yesteryear
      and so the righteous youth of today will become the "bad" elders of tomorrow!
  • Discussion

    Tue, May 13, 2008 - 8:48 AM
    My milkshake brings all the boy's to the yard, damn right it's better than yours, I could teach you but I'd have to charge...........Love K.B.

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